On the occasion of Yugadi, the Vikrama Weekly of Karnataka is bringing out a special edition titled “Sangha Shatamana” (Sangh’s Centenary). As part of this special issue, RSS Sarkaryavah Dattatreya Hosabale gave an exclusive interview to Vikrama. Over nearly two and a half hours, he spoke with Vikrama’s Editor, Ramesha Doddapura, about the Sangh, society, temple revival, and the road ahead.
Here are the excerpts from the conversation:
Vikrama: One of the unique traditions of the Rashtriya Swayamsevak Sangh (RSS) is its Shakha. Though it is a completely open activity, no one has been able to replicate it successfully. While the conduct of the Shakha is open to all to witness, what is the ‘secret’ behind its success? How is it that only RSS has been able to establish and sustain such a simple yet structured system?
Dattatreya Hosabale: The Shakha is a system that was devised over a century ago for man-making. If a Shakha exists in a town or village, it signifies the presence of the Sangh there. The founder of the Sangh, Poojaniya Dr. Keshav Baliram Hedgewar, had participated in the freedom movement and various other activities, gaining immense experience in the process. Out of that experience, the concept and methodology of the Shakha emerged. Dr. Hedgewar must have thought deeply about this system.
As you rightly pointed out, the Shakha is a completely open, daily one-hour activity held in public spaces. It is extremely simple and has no secrets. However, while it is simple, it is not easy. Though the Shakha format is straightforward, it requires daily participation for years, making it difficult to sustain. It demands a certain mindset, discipline, dedication, and perseverance without expecting immediate results.
Some have attempted to imitate the Shakha, but selflessness, perseverance, and a spirit of sacrifice are required to sustain it. Without these qualities, such attempts have not been successful. The spirit of camaraderie and emotional bonding forms the foundation of a Shakha. There is a popular Sangh song that says, “Shuddha Satvik Prem apne Karya Ka Aadhar Hai” (Pure and selfless love is the foundation of our work). The 100-year history of the Sangh has proven that this is the most effective model for social organisation and transformation.
Vikrama: Another distinctive feature of the Sangh is the Pracharak system. When Dr Hedgewar conceptualised this system, was there any precedent or model for it in the Bharatiya tradition?
Dattatreya Hosabale: There are multiple interpretations regarding the origins of the Pracharak system in the Sangh. However, the exact source from which Dr. Hedgewar derived this idea is not definitively known. In fact, our society has long upheld a tradition of Sadhus and Sants who dedicate their lives to the nation, Dharma, and spiritual pursuits, setting aside personal aspirations. For thousands of years, we have had sages and saints who selflessly worked toward a higher cause. Similarly, during the freedom struggle, many youths renounced personal ambitions and devoted themselves entirely to the movement. Dr. Hedgewar himself emerged from such an environment.
Samarth Ramadas introduced the concept of ‘Mahanth’ in Maharashtra which closely resembles the life of a Pracharak. Though Dr. Hedgewar never explicitly mentioned adopting this concept, given that he started the RSS in Maharashtra, it is possible that he was influenced by such ideas. Doctor Ji himself set an example for dedicating oneself to society. If we look at it that way, Doctor Ji is the first Pracharak of the Sangh. His vision was that a Shakha could be established anywhere in Bharat and Pracharaks could emerge from any corner of the country. This ability to grasp the dynamics of the diverse cultural and linguistic landscape of Bharat and being able to come up with these two ideas was his speciality. Such far-sightedness and strategic vision are not found in an ordinary individual or a mere intellectual thinker. Unfortunately, we do not have extensive written works or speeches from Dr. Hedgewar that could provide deeper insights into his thought process.
Vikrama: How can the personality of Dr Hedgewar be described?
Dattatreya Hosabale: He was a true visionary, what in English is called a “seer”. He could foresee the future and anticipate what lay ahead. His personality was self-effacing as he never sought personal recognition or fame. Since he was involved in revolutionary activities , he never have practice of documenting his own work. Once, when a writer approached him, saying he wanted to write about his life, Dr. Hedgewar firmly refused. For him, the organisation was everything, and all his contributions were dedicated to the Sangh’s mission. He never spoke about himself or his achievements. It was only during his birth centenary celebrations in 1989 that many in the country saw his photograph for the first time. Until then, people knew about the Sangh but did not know anything about its founder.
Vikrama: Many organisations that started in the country have faded away. Some have survived but lost their influence. However, the RSS has not only maintained its existence but also expanded and remained unified. Haven’t there been any internal or external attempts to weaken or dismantle the Sangh? How do you view this?
Dattatreya Hosabale: As I mentioned earlier, RSS Swayamsevaks share a deep bond of camaraderie and mutual respect, which has prevented any internal rifts within the organization. All discussions within the Sangh are open, and once a decision is made, everyone adheres to it. There is no scope for personal ambition or prestige. The collective good of the organization is the primary focus for everyone. The second aspect is the unwavering confidence of the Swayamsevaks in each other. Third, the mindset that there may be differences in the belief systems, but there should be no differences in the mind.
The daily Shakha and the structured working system of the Sangh play a crucial role in fostering such an attitude. There may have been external attempts to divide or weaken the Sangh, but this fortress of resilience has remained impenetrable.
Vikrama: Caste remains a social reality even today. Given that the RSS has been working with society for so many years, hasn’t caste-based discrimination or division affected the organisation? How has the Sangh remained ‘Insulated’ from this issue?
Dattatreya Hosabale: The Sangh includes people from all traditions, sects, and castes. However, it has never adopted the customs or rituals of any particular caste or sect. The Shakha follows only a minimal set of practices necessary for its functioning. Caste is never a topic of discussion in the Sangh. The first lesson taught in the RSS is that we are all Hindus. The way to reduce the divisive lines of caste is by drawing a larger unifying identity, which is Hindu unity. Thus, caste has no place in the Sangh. There is a discipline in the Sangh that its workers must not be actively involved in caste-based organizations. As a result, RSS swayamsevaks do not hold leadership positions in any caste-based groups. Efforts to eradicate caste through confrontation only reinforce caste divisions. In 1974, during his Vasanta Vyakhyanmala (Lecture Series), the third Sarsanghchalak Balasaheb Deoras stated: “Let caste be erased from society. Let it go more smoothly, but there is no need to lament that caste is going away.” The rigid caste hierarchy does not allow social mobility; as Dr. B.R. Ambedkar described it, it is ‘a multi-storied building without a staircase’. However, within the RSS ecosystem, many inter-caste marriages have taken place, but the Sangh has never used this for publicity. Since RSS swayamsevaks deeply internalise the idea of Hindu unity, they remain above caste divisions.
Vikrama: Has the Sangh’s approach of treating caste as immaterial had any impact on society? Is it possible to measure this? Another issue is the view that diversity in India has so far remained based on caste, and there are sayings that if caste disappears, diversity will also vanish. How can this be understood?
Dattatreya Hosabale: The argument that caste must be preserved only to maintain diversity is not conducive to national unity. India’s geographical and natural diversity ensures that social diversity will always exist. It is incorrect to say that caste alone is necessary to maintain diversity. If caste remains confined to family traditions or domestic practices, it does not harm society. However, if caste is used to discriminate or determine political power, it becomes a problem for society. The Sangh has always urged that a system be put in place through society and the Constitution to eliminate this deficiency for those who have been deprived of respect, opportunity, and equality based on birth (caste). Has the Sangh’s stance on caste influenced society? Yes, it has. While this change is not solely due to the Sangh, many individuals have worked toward this goal. With changing times, caste barriers are naturally weakening. Today, we see IAS officers, sports persons, film stars, and IT professionals choosing their life partners based on career and compatibility rather than caste. This trend is increasing, gradually shifting caste identities.
Vikrama: Many who strongly advocate for caste abolition have ironically turned into staunch casteists themselves…
Dattatreya Hosabale: Caste is being used as a tool for political power-play. Many who claim to follow the maker of the Constitution, Dr BR Ambedkar’s ideology are deeply involved in caste politics, forming parties and power groups based on caste identity. Without fostering a national consciousness with the belief that “This is one nation, and we are all one people”, a solution cannot be found to this problem.
Vikrama: The founder of the Sangh did not want the Sangh to celebrate its centenary. How should we view this centenary in the light of Hedagewar’s thoughts? Is it a time for celebration or time to introspect as to why the goal could not be achieved as soon as it had thought?
Dattatreya Hosabale: True. Dr. Hedgewar had a desire that “I should see the society organised while I am in this same body, with these same eyes.” This is why the Sangh did not celebrate its twenty-fifth, fiftieth or seventy-fifth anniversaries. “Is this really the occasion to celebrate, or should we introspect as to why we have not yet accomplished our goal?” Poojaniya Sarsanghchalak Dr. Mohan Bhagwat had suggested in a Baithak. It is indeed a time for introspection. But there is no need to be self-deprecating. The Sangh has been able to instill self-confidence in Hindu society due to the penance, sacrifice, and perseverance of the Sangh Swayamsevaks and the cooperation of the society. The positive results of Hindu reawakening and organised power are visible. When we look at the path we have come, we feel proud and feel that we have done what we could. But there is also a sense of regret and incompletion. Therefore, there is no plan to celebrate the centenary. However, there are plans and agendas to strengthen the Sangh’s work more effectively and qualitatively. Dr Hedgewar never accepted idea that foreigners were responsible for our societal issues: RSS’ Dattatreya Hosabale
Vikrama: What have been the major obstacles preventing it from fully achieving its goal in these hundred years? Is it due to societal conditions, political forces, or foreign influences?
Dattatreya Hosabale: It is a combination of all these factors. I wouldn’t blame foreign powers because Dr Hedgewar himself never accepted the idea that foreigners were responsible for our societal issues. Foreign powers could only take advantage of the weaknesses that already existed in our society. For centuries, caste divisions, personal egos, and linguistic and regional differences have created fragmentation within Indian society. The lack of self-esteem, selfishness, and lack of unity are the real obstacles. Another major challenge has been the post-independence political landscape. Instead of uniting society, political movements have further deepened divisions for narrow electoral gains. This short-sighted and selfish politics has been a significant hurdle for Sangh’s work. Despite all these challenges, there is a deep sense of devotion toward Bharat among its people. When an Indian athlete wins on the international stage, or when a soldier is martyred at the border, people don’t consider their caste, region, or language, and every citizen reacts emotionally. Similarly, service-mindedness and cultural awareness are increasing. However, this spirit must not be occasional but should become a way of life. The Sangh is working towards making this spirit a life’s vision.
Vikrama: On the occasion of its centenary, the Sangh has set two key goals: increasing the number of shakhas to one lakh and implementing the concept of Panch Parivartan . These concepts do not align with the usual discourse associated with ‘Hindutva’ as identified with the Sangh. Is this merely a change in words, or does it indicate a shift in perspective?
Dattatreya Hosabale: All of this is rooted in the ideological foundation of the Sangh. Just like the concept of Progressive Unfoldment, as we move forward, new dimensions open up. Hindutva is not some abstract spiritual preaching; it is related to life itself. Hindutva does not merely mean repealing Article 370, cow protection, or the construction of the Ram Mandir in Ayodhya as it is made out to be. Everything encompassed in Panch Parivartan is also Hindutva. Every aspect related to life is included in it. Adapting to changing times is the very nature of Hindu society. Isn’t that why our tradition has Smritis, which reinterpret dharma according to contemporary needs without abandoning its foundation? As DV Gundappa said, “A tree flourishes when new shoots emerge alongside its old roots, and dharma thrives when new reasoning is integrated with ancient principles.” True to this, in a living society, change must happen from time to time. The RSS has upheld this idea from the very beginning. From this perspective, Panch Parivartan is both Rashtra Dharma and Yuga Dharma.
Vikrama: The RSS used to strongly advocate for Akhand Bharat on several occasions in the past. The observance of Akhand Bharat Sankalp Diwas continues to take place to this day. However, in recent times, the topic of Akhand Bharat has not been prominently mentioned in the speeches of Sangh functionaries and senior leaders. Does this indicate a shift in the Sangh’s stance? What is the organisation’s current position on Akhand Bharat?
Dattatreya Hosabale: The idea of Akhand Bharat is not just about geographical unity. Regardless of the religious practices followed by different people in this country, we have always emphasised that we are one. It is not only about creating Akhand Bharat but also ensuring that the existing Bharat and its society remain united and strong. As for geographical unity, there has been no change in our stand. Even today, Akhand Bharat Sankalp Diwas is observed. However, we must recognise that global geopolitics has undergone significant changes. If the Hindu society within Bharat is not strong and organised, merely speaking about Akhand Bharat will not yield results. When Bharat and Hindu society collectively display their strength, the world will acknowledge it. Akhand Bharat is our life’s dream and a vow. There is no dilution in our commitment. But if a region that was once divided is to reintegrate, is the Bharatiya society prepared to absorb and assimilate it? If not, merely talking about this dream will not yield any results.
Vikrama: The organisations associated with the Sangh are referred to as the Sangh Parivar . Are all these organisations making an impact on society in line with their founding objectives? Is there a system in place to evaluate their effectiveness?
Dattatreya Hosabale: The Sangh has not created these organisations as part of a structured plan. Rather, Swayamsevaks, driven by their social responsibility and duty, have established these organisations in various respective fields based on the ideals and experiences gained from the Sangh. The Sangh does not evaluate these organisations. The only measure it applies is to see how much Sangh Sanskar (rites of passage) and Sanghattva exist within them. Over the past 50 years, most of the organisations established by Swayamsevaks have reached the top in their respective fields in terms of strength, reach, and impact. Whether they have fully achieved their objectives is difficult to say, as there are numerous challenges. However, these organisations have been quite successful in addressing the issues in their respective domains. They have established several positive traditions and upheld the flag of nationalism. Whatever work a Swayamsevak undertakes must be impactful. The evaluation of their success must be carried out by the respective organisations themselves, and they are indeed doing so.
Vikrama: Today, English-medium education has become commonplace. The Supreme Court itself has stated that the right to choose the medium of instruction lies with parents, not the government. Parents are increasingly opting for English. Even Sangh’s swayamsevaks are inevitably enrolling their children in English-medium schools. Educational institutions inspired by the Sangh are also setting up English-medium schools. At the same time, the Akhil Bharatiya Pratinidhi Sabha (ABPS) has a resolution advocating education in the mother tongue. In this context, how should we view the role of language in preserving our identity?
Dattatreya Hosabale: It is universally acknowledged by education experts and psychologists that acquiring knowledge in one’s mother tongue is easier and more natural. That is why we emphasise the importance of mother tongue education. If individual freedom in choosing the medium of education is considered crucial, then shouldn’t concern for our culture be equally important? Language is not just a medium of expression; it is a manifestation of culture. Hence, it must be viewed not just as an individual right but as a cultural responsibility. Therefore, preserving Bharatiya languages and mother tongues is essential. The languages of our nation and their literary heritage are on par with any world literature. All our languages have produced profound literary works. If future generations do not read and write in these languages, how will they survive? The fascination with English exists primarily due to practical reasons such as better job opportunities, prospects of going abroad, and social prestige. A permanent solution must be found for this. Another key aspect is creating an economic model where those educated in Bharatiya languages have ample job opportunities. Senior intellectuals, judges, educationists, writers, and political and religious leaders must adopt a progressive stance on this matter. If the three-language formula is properly implemented, it is estimated that 95% of the problem will be resolved.
Vikrama: Instead of implementing language naturally, attempts were made to impose it, which perhaps led to setbacks in this effort.
Dattatreya Hosabale: There was a bit of politics involved in this, along with the stubbornness and arrogance of some people regarding their language. “One should have pride in their language, but not arrogance. There should be insistence, but not obstinacy,” said D.V. Gundappa. If such statements need to be made, doesn’t it mean that such attempts had indeed taken place? This applies to all languages.
In a vast country like this, it would be wonderful if everyone learned Sanskrit. Even Dr. Ambedkar had advocated for it. Or, there is no harm in learning a language spoken by a large number of people. Isn’t that our language, too? Today, every soldier learns Hindi. Those who need employment learn the language of the respective state. The problem arose when this was turned into an issue of imposition due to politics and opposition. Hasn’t Bharat remained unified for thousands of years despite linguistic diversity? How was it managed earlier? It seems that we have turned language into a problem today.
Vikrama: Politics has played a significant role in complicating not just language but several issues. “Politics cannot unite society; at best, it can only divide,” said Sarsanghchalak Dr Mohan Bhagwat. Politics is creating divisions in society. What efforts is the Sangh making to counter this?
